Talk:European Federation
What do you think happened to the monarchies of Europe. The Belgian, Spanish, Dutch and Norwegian monarchies for example. Do you think that they were all lumped together into a single Monarchy? Maybe they were all just "disbanded"? What do you think? --Big-Hype 16:41, 14 July 2009 (UTC) It seems to me that the list of countries in the European federation isn't complete. Now, i only have the demo so i wouldn't know what counties/territories are under the E.F.'s control prior to WWIII when the game play actually starts, so I'm at a bit of a disadvantage. If you look at the list however, you'll notice that the following European countries are missing: Czech Rep., Slovakia, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, and Albania. These nations/territories are not mentioned. I'm not sure if the previously listed nations were annexed by Russia along with Ukraine, Moldova, and Romania in 2018 since i haven't actually played the full game to check it out for myself. anyway, I'd appreciate it if someone could verify this for me and hopefully edit the page as well(adding the new nations) thanks Actually, I've seen some screen shots of the campaign map and it seems that the Czech Rep. and Slovakia share a territory with Poland and Serbia shares one with not only the countries already listed in the article but also with Albania. Austria and Hungary share a territory as well. So, I'm guessing that since Macedonia, Serbia, and Kosovo are listed, someone must have forgotten about Albania and by extension, all the others i previously mentioned. I'm going to add them in, but if I'm wrong, please don't hesitate in correcting my edit. So you think Canada's part of the NC/EF, eh? Not according to the officail book. Canada's a neutral country that actually supports the USA, not the EF. 22:46, April 5, 2010 (UTC) North American Joint Security Agreement of 2014 allowed US forces to downright invade Mexico during the events of Ghost Reacon: Advanced Warfighter 2, which takes place in this universe, making Canada a US ally, and likely a break-away member of the New Commonwealth.- MA4585159 08:10, January 22, 2012 (UTC) On flag I believe I remember seeing the revised flag of the EF in the game. It has an additional horizontal line of three or four stars, YuriKaslov. - MA4585159 08:10, January 22, 2012 (UTC) *To confirm, observe the Bankole page image. - MA4585159 (talk) Map of Europe I can't believe we never paid attention to the map of Europe in Prelude to War till now. I've gone on ahead and edited the information given, but I must say, this looks strangely like the map of the Interwar Period between World Wars I and II. At least in regards to Germany. Its about the size of Nazi Germany! 02:48, January 26, 2014 (UTC) *My recommendation is to log these observations under a Level 3 Header (as a separate section), as I've seen this map, and it's wacky - some of the borders at least predate WWI. Since Endwar takes place in the Ryanverse, which is alternate history only starting with the nuclear explosion in Denver in 1990 (IIRC), it's rather unbelievable for EF to just start making such controversial and rather unnecessary changes. USSR carried out a lot of such meddling, and it's resulted in half a dozen genocides. - MA4585159 (talk) *Its possible that the rise in oil prices lead to government collapses and wars and the EF was a desperate attempt to prevent a continental war. Its equally possible that France, suffering from many real world economic and social issues that would have been exacerbated by the situation, now takes a subordinate role to Germany, which could explain Germany's rise in size and power. Its been said in real life that the EU is run by France and financed by Germany. I could see the situation being France taking a mouthpiece role and Germany being the actual driving force behind the EF. and that map should actually be posted on the page. Its a good illustration of the current geopolitical situation. - 11:47, January 27, 2014 (UTC) *The map. Is. Weird. After I got a broadband and a bigger screen, it became completely insane. We have Vichy France separated from the Nazi zone of occupation, several border territory concessions, a 1944 frontline plotted in Italy (IIRC), the Second Reich of 1881, but broken-up Czechoslovakia, broken-up Poland, an independent Crimea, some country on the Ukrainian-Belorussian border (if I'm correct, around the Polessie region). I think we can rule the map out as non-canon because there is also an internal border in Russia - which seems to be the border between the North-Western and Central Federal Districts. - MA4585159 (talk) *I wouldn't say non-canon. Who knows the relative independence or status of any of these states. Many could be autonomous regions or de facto independent, or puppet states. 22:39, February 1, 2014 (UTC) *We are still talking about a world roughly similar to ours, which has had only four years to undergo these changes. It would take roughly two years for Scotland to declare its independence after the September 18th referendum this year. Maps don't change instantly. - MA4585159 (talk) *Don't forget this is an altenate timeline. Just in what we know, there has at least been one war between Russia and the West already (the original Ghost Recon). And who knows what happened after the nukes went off in Saudi Arabia (whether that was by war or terrorism). A collapse of the world economy would have most likely happened. With that, borders could have changed very quickly. 23:09, February 3, 2014 (UTC) *Let's break it down into three points: *#Outside Tom Clancy's own works, the Ryanverse is not known for a solid continuity. Do you even know that Denver, Colorado was nuked during the Superbowl final, killing the President? Or that a Japanese pilot flew a '747 into the Capitol, killing another POTUS? How can H.A.W.X. take place in 2021 if WWIII took place in 2020-2028? *#*"Who knows" is not a justifiable excuse to start speculating. *#These territorial shifts, in total, would require a World War in order for all of them to occur. No mention of it is given. Such things are never simply glossed over. *#You equate an economic crisis to a reason to go to war. However, war is an impressive investment of resources that must originally be present. You need men, weapons, vehicles, plans, bases, fuel, and above all, MONEY. A state that launches a war amidst a crisis is doomed to failure, because their little campaign often outgrows its original intended scale, and at the same time the state lacks the resources to win it (see Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905). On the other hand, observe the lead-up to both World Wars, which were not conducted by idiots: Germany was about to hit the ceiling of her possible development as a continental (non-colonial) power before WWI; during the Great Depression, the economic situation directly favoured the rise of the NSDAP, i.e. Hitler, but the war didn't erupt until a decade later, when Germany was at 100+ % employment. Superpowers - or European countries, for that matter - don't start wars abruptly. There is a build-up of jingoism and nationalist rhetoric. There is build-up of alliances. There is the classical arms race. MA4585159 (talk) **Wars break out all the time due to national collapses. Mostly in form of coup de tats or civil war. And in the modern era, those are already a common occurence. In a world with a collapsing economy, they would probably be an everyday occurence. A mass worldwide destabilization could easily set off a regional or continental war in any of the major already existing hot spots around the world.Rogue Leader 1000 (talk) 07:10, July 4, 2014 (UTC) *If a war or terrorism in the Saudi Arabia were to happen the way the game and book describe it, it would quite literally destroy the world economy. Most nations in places like Africa and South America probably wouldn't survive a year. In that time, thousands of smaller wars, insurgencies and civil conflicts may arise, particularly in the third and second world, not taking into account of world reactions to what happened in the Middle East. The only nations that would have any conceivable chance of surviving would be those who could secure for themselves a healthy reserve of oil. Thus the reason its implied in game that the U.S. invaded and occupied and/or annexed Venezuela. You really can't compare what happened during the Great Depression with what happened in this world. Not taking into account all the different wars that have been portrayed in Tom Clancy mediums up to this point, the economic catastrophe that would grip the world in this era would be unknowable. Rapid changes in local politics even in nations able to survive the initial shock of the rise in oil prices would result. The collapse of European nations or the fragmentation of some states would be just the push needed for the disparate Europe states to finally agree to federalization The game itself kind of glosses over its entire backstory, compared to the novels, and only tells it in bits and pieces. It seems that story just wasn't that important to the game makers. hence story mode is a series of battles not tied together by any real overarching story aside from what the game chooses to throw at you and what it already established in prelude to war. 19:35, February 24, 2014 (UTC) **You are giving the Persian Gulf too much credit. The US are already almost self-sufficient in terms of oil. And while it will be a shock, the 1980s saw a five-fold increase in oil prices (inflation-adjusted) yet the world didn't collapse. - MA4585159 (talk) **But was the oil ever turned off? Though oil prices have risen, there has never been a prolonged shut down of that magnitude in modern history. Saudi Arabia is one of the largest oil producers in the world. A nuclear attack that destroys its refineries would crush the world economy. And if it was a nuclear exchange between Saudi Arabia and Iran as the book suggest, then that is even worse as that would potentially cut out Iran as well, which is the second largest oil producer on Earth. Two of the world's largest oil producers, out of the game, possibly permanently? There is no precedent for that. And while the United States is almost energy self-sufficient, mainly due to natural gas, and could be oil independent if politicians allowed for more drilling, the rest of the world is not the United States. Once again, there is no real world equivalent to the events in this game, as nothing of that magnitude has happened.Rogue Leader 1000 (talk) 07:10, July 4, 2014 (UTC) PSP EuroFed Map As I was watching a few videos on YouTube, I noticed one in particular, which shows a variation of the map as seen in the PSP intro cinematic. Unlike the PC/console versions, all of the member states retain their contemporary borders. The following countries, in order of appearance, are confirmed as part of this version's EuroFed (as well as confirmed members for both maps, sans Norway): *Germany *Luxembourg *Czech Republic *Belgium *Denmark *Poland *France *Austria *Sweden *Italy *Norway *Spain Compared to the PC/console map, those who are confirmed NOT EuroFed members are as follows: *Finland (barely noticeable) *Latvia (barely noticeable) *Lithuania (barely noticeable) *Slovakia *Slovenia *Hungary *Bosnia and Herzegovina (with some southeastern territory lost to former-Montenegro-now-Serbia) *Montenegro (which appears to have been completely absorbed by Serbia, with some former territory lost to Albania) *Greece *Malta Compared to the PC/console map, unconfirmed members (those not shown on-screen) are as follows: *Portugal *Estonia *Cyprus *Bulgaria It could be assumed that the previous fourteen countries were either ineligible to join or simply declined membership. Also of note is the exclusion of the United Kingdom and Ireland from the PSP's EuroFed; the PC/console map has them highlighted as member states, even though it was stated that the two nations declined membership and instead formed the New Commonwealth. Now that I think about it, unless I'm mistaken, I believe there is a version of EndWar for the Nintendo DS, which may or may not use one of the two confirmed map variations or possibly even its own. With all that said, what does this mean for the true nature of the EuroFed's borders? Do we take this information into consideration or with a grain of salt? Green light ops (talk) 05:17, March 12, 2015 (UTC)